"...being there I realized how I had the military looking at us and pointing at us, and that, although we were just walking."
"...if they are to continue following me or they will follow my family, I am no longer afraid if I have to lose someone else, because I've already lost it."
“Why don't they take out the bodies that are inside the Senkata barracks? All the bodies that got in there… Where are they? ”
International Network: Good morning, would you introduce yourself, please?
Elvia Quispe: Good morning, my name is Elvia Quispe Ticona, I Ronald Antonio Quispe Ticona’s sister, elder sister of one of those killed in the Senkata massacre.
RI: Can you tell us how you lived the massacre and the following moments?
EQT: I found out on November 19, about 4 pm. I was working when I found out. They sent me a picture asking if he was my brother, and of course he was my brother. That was the hour, more or less, where he used to go to work, because he works in the city. We lived before as I told you in the city of La Paz, but later my parents decided to move to Senkata… That day my mother told me they were having lunch... It was the day that my brother had to collect his salary. When he left he said goodbye to the family and, well, my mother told him not to leave... but my brother said "no mom, I have to collect my money." He had lunch, got ready... he told her to relax, "I will call you when I arrive and it will be all right"... But he left and as they would realize, he never came back. The only thing that came was his photo, which I think was published in all media, where he was lying on the floor... Then we found out, when we were already in the wake, by a man who approached my siblings and told them that the young man (Elvia's brother, RN) had saved his life; that when the police and military were there and the young man tried to cover him, (my brother) received the impact of a bullet from above on the head. He (This man) commented that he must have died and not my brother, and that he had saved his life.
Well, on the 19th (November) when I find out, I left my job... I immediately gave the news to my family and my younger brother, of whom I am in charge. Then I went out to buy the tickets and we traveled to Bolivia, to La Paz. We arrived on the 20th (November), around 8 pm Bolivian time. When we arrived... there were no cars, and the one I found the closest it could take me was to my grandfather's house in the La Paz Olla (a place in the city of La Paz). There I left my things and we made a walk up to Senkata because there was no mobility. I was very scared because there... they chased you for anything. And much more to us who had just arrived in search of our brother. The entire road to Senkata was blocked, the roads were covered. But on both sides (of the road)... it was all militarized. With the military in the streets I was very afraid of walking, especially I was afraid that my little brother or even myself would may get hurt; because with everything that had happened we didn't even know where we were walking to. The truth is that I was praying. When I walked I stumbled on stones because I couldn't see the road under my feet...
Around two in the morning we arrived at the San Francisco de Asís church where my brother's body was. When we arrived, if I'm not mistaken, we saw seven bodies that were being watched in the place. And many relatives who were very hurt... I could not believe what I was seeing. There you could listen to all the testimonies of each family member... I remember it and I get upset... of seeing women who were with their children, many of the dead were fathers, who had gone to work and never returned. Others who went out to buy something and did not return, and in the case of my brother, he went to work and never returned. So much so that the salary he had to receive that day I received at the door of the cemetery; his boss handed it to me. But what was that salary for? My brother is not going to come back to me.
Well, when they told me everything that had happened, it was something I would have never thought. I had lived something similar in 2003... in the government of Gonzalo Sánchez de Losada... That is why I came to this country (Argentina). Because my parents didn't have the possibility to help me to study... and that's why I came and left my country, but my country never left me as I always say…
RI: What did they do after the massacre?
EQT: ... We wanted to take my brother. Every family member of the fallen wanted to watch them at home or at the place where each family wanted, but they could not (remove the bodies) because according to what the families said, (the police and the armed forces) wanted to take the bodies, they wanted to disappear the corpses.
Everything they were telling me was at first like a novel; it looked like a movie. But when daylight came out, I went out to explore the place where these things had happened and I realized that everything was true, because the road was all full of projectiles, even marks on the floor... And everything was true what they said... being there I realized how I had the military looking at us and pointing at us, and that just because we were just walking. You could not video-record. Under my shawl I tried to record how little I could... All these people were called "terrorists", "criminals"... But you have to explain to me how a sixty-year-old man… there were grandparents and children, a 12-year-old girl who was hit by a bullet, the women in "pollera" (wearing a skirt), my mother is one of them… how are they going to take out a gun and send a projectile? You have to be very ignorant to think those things, right?
Some people told me that nothing was happening (in Bolivia), and even now they keep saying it. But the truth is that I lived it... the day of my brother's funeral, the day we came down from El Alto with the coffin, where they ended up hurting more people including my family. While I was filling the funeral forms for my brother, my family was beaten and gassed. My sister was admitted unconscious to a hospital... (after the repression)... the coffins ended scattered on the floor.
I accompanied my brother's body, as many relatives, neighbors, accompanied by their children did. There were ladies carrying their babies... and the repressors didn't care about anything. They still gassed us... it was horrible, very ugly. When I found out I went to look for my sister, my dad and I were looking for my brother's body. I didn't where to run.
RI: What happened after the repression of November 21?
EQT: Little by little things got settled. I received the call from some people and they told me "Stay calm, as your mother has already appeared, she is with your brother's body, she is in such and such a place..." My father had also appeared and was with a blow to the head. Then I went to look for my sister who was in the hospital…
RI: What happened in the hospitals?
EQT: In hospitals, health centers, the first thing they asked the wounded and family was: "What party do you belong to?" That is, they treated you depending on the party you were. And, to tell the truth, it seems very unfair to me, because for those things you don't have to be a member of any party. Many people felt that they had to escape from the hospitals because the police or military themselves were going to look for them in the hospitals...
We still want to know where the bodies are (from many fallen ones), because there are many missing... There were few bodies that we were able to bury that day... I do not know if all those are listed within the deceased system, I really do not know. It was hard for me to register my brother in the system... Because that day there were not any lawyers, the records were closed. They did not want to assist you because it was prohibited.
There was one person I could find to make a record for my brother, for his death certificate… but the entire system of records was manipulated... I had to wait about three hours for the system to enter him in. So it was. We waited, we waited until we could get in. If I had not waited and I would conform with what happened to other people, my brother perhaps at this time would not be among the deceased...
There you could not think differently, you do not have that freedom of expression. You already think differently and (they say) you are from MAS. It is the only thing that (this government) says… “You belong to Evo Morales (party)”. It is the only thing they have in their heads. Sorry for the expression but ... they have shit on their heads... That's what happened to me there, and the truth was incredible... they hacked the (social media) accounts, they hacked our cell phones; we couldn't use them... What for? What were we doing? We do not attack anyone. On the contrary, they came to attack us... (After the massacre), you cannot tell me that nobody is to blame, here someone gave an order that did not correspond to him/her... The person who entered at the head those days (Añez), her only mission was to pacify and call for elections, and not placing orders that do not belong to her... She was the first person who came to impose her thoughts and her laws, which is not her duty. I do not belong to one side or the other, because nobody is going to give me back my brother. And, really if they are to continue following me or will follow my family, I am no longer afraid if I have to lose someone else, because I've already lost it.
RI: There is a testimony from a relative who says there were more than 25 dead in Senkata, and that not all of them were registered.
EQT: Exactly. There is a direct testimony of one of the people who was in Senkata, I have it on video because I video-recorded her. I also have the autopsy evidence, where you can see, as I told the IACHR (Inter-American Court of Human Rights), how they find the projectile, and when they have to show it, they cover it instead. That is very unfair. There are papers that they had to give to the relatives. Those who did the autopsy, never delivered them.
That direct relative, really, in the name of that lady, I hope she is still alive and well because I was afraid that something would happen to her, because they were looking for her. She said it herself, "they are looking for me." And so many relatives. There were the testimonies of those injured who escaped from the hospitals... you had to member of a party to be treated, of a color to be treated. This is racism...
What can they say about the children? Of a twelve-year-old girl. They cannot say that she is a terrorist... when she explains to you where the bullet came from... Why don't they take out the bodies that are inside Senkata's barracks? All the bodies that got in there... Where are they?
RI: Regarding workers' organizations in Bolivia, what is your opinion?
EQT: lately I saw that organizations are divided. I would love that, as it happened years ago, they would come together again on this issue ... That a representative should come out of each organization and find out things really as they were. And don't get carried away by what is said... You have to go to the base point (Senkata) to find out if that (what is said) is really happening.
RI: During your stay in Bolivia, no worker or peasant organization contacted you?
EQT: So far we have no collaboration from anyone, neither for the injured nor for the deceased, for anyone. Not even for prisoners... there are people who are unfairly detained. They are young men, women, who are detained, and what is the reason? The truth is what we would like to know. Is there any help?
No, none. The only ones who sympathized, I would say, with what little they have, is the Red Cross that came to heal the wounded a couple of times. The injured no longer want to go to any health center because they are afraid. Then the Red Cross had to go to the church of San Francisco de Asís, at the small square, and come to heal them there. There people did go. But they don't want to go to health centers. Because they are afraid ... There is the case of one of the injured. How can you sew (a wound) while with the bullet splinter still inside? And then the next day you want to remove the suture. What kind of doctor does that? A suture minimally takes ten days, you cannot remove them the next day...
RI: What do you think about what the COB leadership did before the massacre?
EQT: The truth is that... as I told you at the beginning, they should have to unite more, between federations and organizations, to carry out (measures) very thoroughly. And hiding information is very bad... Because if you are going to report something it is not only for a group of people, but you are going to inform those who really have to defend what is theirs... Some people managed on the side of politics, of a political party, and that's really not right.
RI: And the workers organizations here in Argentina? What do you think they should do?
EQT: For me they should have to do as we are all asking, wouldn't they? (Ask for) Justice. They should ask for a solution of all this because at the pace that we are going here we are not seeing the results. And if we keep on this track … we will go from bad to worse. That is what I would say about them. And so far nothing has been done. In Buenos Aires I did not see that they have done anything but publish (declarations), but with publishing we do not get anywhere.
RI: In your opinion, what happened in Senkata is reduced to Bolivia? Or can it spread?
EQT: Well, if this government (the coup) continues, with its orders, this will get worse, because people are not going to keep quiet. Just as I told you, I don't care if I lose another family member, and there are many people who feel the same, they are no longer afraid. Some are no longer afraid, they go and face (the repression)... My mother is a skirt ("polleras", the broad skirt donned by the indigenous, peasant and poor working class women, TN), I am proud that she is a skirt (-donner). And that's why they discriminated against us. I prefer to be from the countryside a thousand times than to be in another position. Because the truth is that we are the country people, the people that work; because if it weren't for those people, nobody would have anything to eat.
RI: Do you want to add anything else?
EQT: I thank you for the invitation. Thank you for all this coverage (for international struggle so that the Senkata Massacre is not silenced)… It hurts to remember sometimes. I'd rather not have to, but the time comes that you have to do it. And I'm not going to do it just here; I'm going to keep doing it... |
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